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	<title>Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association &#187; Blog</title>
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	<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca</link>
	<description>A right to live with those we love</description>
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		<title>Statement from John Ince: What this decision means for polyamorists</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/statement-from-john-ince-what-this-decision-means-for-polyamorists</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/statement-from-john-ince-what-this-decision-means-for-polyamorists#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 04:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Carole</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[court]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ince]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[polyamory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[statement]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Open letter to the Canadian Polyamory Community from John Ince Hello everyone: It has been two weeks since the Polygamy Reference court decision was released by Chief Justice Baumann of the BC Supreme Court. I have thought a great deal about the case since then, and communicated with lawyers and people in our legal team about how that decision affects the members of the Canadian polyamory community. Thoughts only –<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/statement-from-john-ince-what-this-decision-means-for-polyamorists">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Open letter to the Canadian Polyamory Community from John Ince</strong></p>
<p>Hello everyone:</p>
<p>It has been two weeks since the Polygamy Reference court decision was released by Chief Justice Baumann of the BC Supreme Court.  I have thought a great deal about the case since then, and communicated with lawyers and people in our legal team about how that decision affects the members of the Canadian polyamory community.</p>
<p><strong>Thoughts only – not advice and not the official position of the Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association (CPAA)</strong><br />
These are my thoughts.  And they are just that. Thoughts. These words are not intended to be legal advice to anyone.  If you want such advice please hire a lawyer to get his or her opinion about the case and how it might apply to your own unique circumstances.</p>
<p>Also these are my personal thoughts.  I am not expressing any official policy of the CPAA or anyone else.</p>
<p>In general terms, I think that the decision allows us to do virtually anything the vast majority of polyamorists would want to do.</p>
<p>That is not to say that I agree with all of the court’s conclusions. I think he made errors in his Charter analysis and I think the scope of the prohibition he ultimately defined is still overbroad and unconstitutional. I think this judgment could be overturned on appeal.</p>
<p>But while I may disagree with many of the judge’s points, his conclusion is very positive for our community. His decision makes it clear that polyamorists are not criminals and this is a major step forward for our community to gain social acceptance and become more integrated into mainstream Canadian culture.</p>
<p><strong>The Decision</strong><br />
The judge interpreted Canada’s criminal law against polygamy narrowly so that it only criminalizes non-monogamous relationships that are a) institutionalized b) marriages. The law, he said, protects the “institution of monogamous marriage”.  He concluded that the law does not apply to non-monogamous relationships in general.</p>
<p>Of the two terms “institutionalized” and “marriage” the former is the most important, not only because it narrows the second term, but also because the concept of “institutionalized” is clearer than the concept of “marriage”.</p>
<p>The judge discussed three types of institutionalized marriage and they give a guide to what he means by “institutionalized”.</p>
<p>The first type is the institution of two person heterosexual marriage. As the judge discussed, that institution has thousands of years of cultural practice behind it and in Canada 150 years of formal legal definition and sanction.  It is clearly an institution.</p>
<p>As to the key elements of that institution the evidence suggests these things:<br />
1) marriage has a community dimension because the marriage affects the wider community and not just the parties to the marriage;<br />
2) the community must in some way formally sanction the marriage through an authority structure;<br />
3) some form of marriage registration must occur so the community can determine a marriage has taken place;<br />
4) the public nature of the ceremony is in part designed to tell others that the parties to the marriage are off-limits for sexual purposes;<br />
5) because the marriage affects the wider community the terms of the marriage cannot be renegotiated by the parties themselves;<br />
6) the parties to a marriage cannot dissolve it themselves;  dissolution requires another public ceremony or involvement of third parties<br />
(from paragraphs 227, 1020, 1037-1042 of the court’s decision which is at http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm )</p>
<p>The formal sanctioning by the Canadian legal system in the last twenty years of a new form of monogamous marriage – homosexual – which the judge also recognized shows that marriage can be institutionalized by new practices.</p>
<p>The third type of institutionalized marriage discussed by the court was that of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the “FLDS”), a patriarchal, polygynous and fundamentalist sect which broke off from the Mormon church many years ago. That community, although a virtual legal outcast from mainstream culture, has a roughly 150 year marriage tradition and it clearly meets the above criteria of institutionalization.</p>
<p>The FLDS marriage is discussed in the holy books that the community reveres. Specific practices sanction the marriage and the marriage is approved by people of authority in the community. The fact of the marriage is well known in the community. There are rules which prohibit sexual contact outside marriage.  More rules authorize expelling people from the community for violation of marriage vows.  There are rules and practices for the dissolution of the marriage.</p>
<p>Muslim multi-party marriage traditions are similarly rich in institutional detail and long practice.</p>
<p>According to the judge’s decision, the FLDS and Muslim multi-party marriages are institutionalized and hence prohibited by the Criminal Code. To the argument that the prohibition breached the Charter, he replied that the harm caused by institutionalized multi-party marriage prevented Charter protection.<br />
<strong><br />
Application of the decision to polyamorists</strong><br />
Now I apply these points with the facts that I believe pertain to the polyamorous community in Canada.</p>
<p>I see no form of polyamorous marriage in Canada that could be called “institutionalized” within the meaning of the decision.  Nowhere in the literature about polyamory filed in the court is there any discussion of such an institution in Canada or the U.S.  </p>
<p>There are some polyamorous community values regarding relationship: such as that it is consensual, honest, and gender and sex-orientation equal, but this applies to all relationships, not “marriage”.</p>
<p>There are also community values about personal autonomy and the overriding right of the individual to follow their own path in getting in and out of relationship, while respecting the interests and feelings of others, and those values are incompatible with the institutionalization of marriage as discussed above.</p>
<p>I conclude that given the lack of polyamorous history, sanction or support for “polyamorous marriage” that polyamorous people cannot form the type of marriages that the judge found are prohibited.</p>
<p>I go so far as to say that even if polyamorous people wanted to form such relationships, they cannot.  The whole structure of institutionalization that the judge emphasized over and over again as key to his decision is simply lacking in our community.</p>
<p>Could this structure be created by a sect of polyamorists who want to create a specific form of polyamory for their members? Yes, but they would have to create rules of membership in the community, an ideology of marriage or rules of marriage, a process of formalizing marriage, punishments for breaking marriage vows, and ways to dissolve the marriage.</p>
<p>Members of the sect who participated in such “marriage” ceremonies would be breaking the law as the judge defined it. However such a sect if charged with an offence would have the opportunity to raise evidence showing that polyamorous marriage causes none of the harms which the court defined in the Reference case, and hence Charter protections might apply and prevent any conviction.</p>
<p>Given the current Canadian polyamorous community, I believe such a sect would have very few members.  But if there are people who really want marriage then they can form that sect and take their chances with the law.</p>
<p><strong>How far can we legally go?</strong><br />
Because there is no polyamorous institution of marriage, how far can polyamorous people go in celebrating and formalizing their relationships?  In my view: probably as far as they want.</p>
<p>The furthest would be to have a formal celebration, with vows, and rings, and even to expressly call it a marriage.  This is probably not a prohibited form of “marriage” because it lacks the institutionalization discussed above.  Specifically, it is entirely ad hoc and personal to the parties.  There is no community structure defining any aspect of the marriage, no third party dissolving the marriage, no punishment for leaving the marriage.</p>
<p>Given the fact that marriage is so bound up with monogamy I believe very few people in the polyamorous community would want to use the language and trappings of marriage for such ad hoc celebrations. But as I say, they probably can go that far and not offend the law.</p>
<p>Avoiding use of the word “marriage” or even formally disavowing that the celebration is a form of marriage would remove any legal risk that I can see. These steps may not be necessary, however I would include them if I was involved in such a ceremony.</p>
<p>So I think we can have ceremonies where we celebrate our relationships. We can take vows of love and commitment. We can share rings.  We can have contracts about finances, and child rearing, and health care. All of those things occur regularly in common law monogamous relationships.<br />
<strong><br />
Borrowing institutionalized structure</strong><br />
An interesting issue would arise should a polyamorous couple want to borrow the institutionalized structure of a group that is not formally polyamorous.  For example, say there is a ceremony that is overtly defined as a “marriage”, that also follows Wiccan traditions and which is presided over by an accredited Wiccan official. Or say there was a break-away sect of the Catholic Church led by a former priest who has a congregation and who will “marry” anyone or any number of people, using all the trappings of the Catholic Church.</p>
<p>I think the prosecution could make a strong argument that there was sufficient “borrowed institutionalization” applying to these official purported “marriages” to make them offend the law.  Hence any explicitly purported “marriage” conducted by any official from a real community would not be advisable in my opinion.  If you want to call your ceremony a marriage, getting any “official” involved increases your legal risk.</p>
<p>Having an “official” from a community preside at a ceremony increases the risk of criminalization, but if you are determined to do that, your legal situation will be better but not absolutely secure if you do not call the ceremony a “marriage” and even better, formally disavow that the process is a “marriage”.</p>
<p><strong>Pensions, immigration, community property, child custody issues</strong><br />
Finally, many people want to know how this case affects issues not related to the formalization of marriage, such as its impact on immigration, pension, community property or hospital attendance privileges for people in polyamorous relationships.</p>
<p>Because the court found that polyamorous relationships that are not institutionalized into a form of marriage are lawful, people in such relationships no longer have to face the chilling argument in child custody,  immigration or other matters that they are criminals. That is obviously a very positive outcome of this case.</p>
<p>Further, nothing in this case prevents people in cohabiting polyamorous relationships from entering contracts with respect to most key family issues, such as community property and the care of children, and hospital privileges.</p>
<p>However many issues cannot be resolved by agreement of the parties but must be specifically authorized by legislation, such as immigration privileges or automatic community property or pensions.  Laws do grant privileges to people who are legally married, and also many common law monogamous marriages.</p>
<p>Many polyamorous people want those same rights.</p>
<p>The problem is that polyamorous cohabitation is so new that society has not yet worked out how to apply the rights that monogamous couples enjoy to a multi-party cohabitation.</p>
<p>These rights are going to have to be worked out on a case by case basis over time.  Gay couples won their battles that way.  Over a period of a couple of decades they litigated many cases dealing with child custody, pensions, tax issues, etc.  It was only after those other rights and obligations were established—allowing gay relationships to become mainstream&#8212;did gay couples ultimately gain the privilege to participate in institutionalized monogamous marriage.</p>
<p>We need to remember that the gay marriage issue was the last major legal issue to be resolved about gay equality, not the first.  If there are polyamorous people who want exactly what homosexuals got, who want the right to traditional institutionalized poly marriage,  then the first step toward that goal is resolving all issues pertaining to pensions, and immigration in a purely co-habitational context and then some time in the future seek the final step of the legal recognition of polyamorous marriages.</p>
<p>John Ince<br />
Lawyer and Spokesperson for the CPAA  (polyadvocacy.ca)                           December 11, 2011</p>
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		<title>Most of us in the clear&#8230; for now</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/most-of-us-in-the-clear-for-now</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/most-of-us-in-the-clear-for-now#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jbash</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The decision is in. Although the law was upheld, the judge's interpretation means that <em>most</em> of the <a href="/majority">poly majority</a> isn't criminalized. However, those who have formalized their commitments aren't out of the woods.

There's more in our <a href="/cpaa-reacts-to-bc-supreme-court-decision">press release</a> and in the judge's <a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm">reasons</a>.

Our thanks go out to all the community members who've supported us. The CPAA is in this for the long haul. We will continue our work, on appeal, in Parliament, or wherever it takes, until all loving, healthy polyamorous relationships are fully accepted in Canada. And we'll still need your help.

We are, of course, still and always available for interviews at <strong>+1 778 786 8010</strong>.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The decision is in. The judge&#8217;s interpretation means that <em>most</em> of the <a href="/majority">poly majority</a> isn&#8217;t criminalized even though the law was upheld. Those who have formalized their commitments may still be caught though this part of the judgment was vague.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s more in our <a href="/cpaa-reacts-to-bc-supreme-court-decision">press release</a> and in the judge&#8217;s <a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm">reasons</a>.</p>
<p>Our thanks go out to all the community members who&#8217;ve supported us. The CPAA is in this for the long haul. We will continue our work, on appeal, in Parliament, or wherever it takes, until all loving, healthy polyamorous relationships are fully accepted in Canada. And we&#8217;ll still need your help.</p>
<p>We are, of course, still and always available for interviews at <strong>+1 778 786 8010</strong>.</p>
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		<title>On the precipice of history</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/on-the-precipice-of-history</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/on-the-precipice-of-history#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On Wednesday of this week coming (November 23rd), Chief Justice Robert Bauman will release his decision with regards to the BC Supreme Court reference case on section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada (known as the Polygamy Law).  Both the legal counsel involved in the case and the media will be in a lock down room and allowed to view the decision and reasons on that morning slightly before<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/on-the-precipice-of-history">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Wednesday of this week coming (November 23rd), Chief Justice Robert Bauman will release his decision with regards to the BC Supreme Court reference case on section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada (known as the Polygamy Law).  Both the legal counsel involved in the case and the media will be in a lock down room and allowed to view the decision and reasons on that morning slightly before it is released on the court&#8217;s website. The judgement will be posted here on Wed Nov 23 at 10 am:<br />
<a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme_court/recent_Judgments.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/<wbr>supreme_court/recent_<wbr>Judgments.aspx</wbr></wbr></a></p>
<p>Please watch for follow up blog postings and resources at the Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association&#8217;s website at <a href="http://www.polyadvocacy.ca/">www.polyadvocacy.ca</a></p>
<p>I will also blog about it and the impact of the decision on polyamourous households in British Columbia and across Canada.</p>
<p>It is with mixed emotions &#8211; excitement, fear, and relief among others -  that I wait for this decision to be released.  One can ponder all the possible outcomes and their ramifications but really we just have to wait and see.  Am I likely to be faced with prosecution? Probably not but for sure not right away.  There&#8217;s an RCMP investigation in process regarding trafficking of BC girls to Warren Jeffs in Texas that will have to be complete and then they&#8217;ll focus on Bountiful.  I think that it was pretty clear in the proceedings that all sides have a problem with the law as it stands.  I think some direction on interpretation to make it possible to prosecute under this law is the worst that can happen. I felt that the plight of honourable loving polyamorous families was heard by Chief Justice Bauman and I believe any such interpretation will not include us.   Direction that the law is written so poorly that interpretation would in essence rewrite the law is the best outcome for all really.  Legislation that leaves no loop holes for those who truly do not have the best interest of others at heart and a zero tolerance for the abuse of men, women and children wherever it is found are shared interests in all of the participants in this case.   Legislation that does not criminalize the victims ought to be a key here as well.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that there are many who have read the press or the actual documentation from the proceedings that would see the victims of abuse at Bountiful and other such colonies continue to suffer.  The problem is in assuming all multi-partnered households operate the same way.  Abuse is found in monogamous homes and perfectly healthy families exist in a multi-partnered families.  The structure of the relationship does not protect the individuals from being presupposed to abusive relationships nor accepting a growingly abusive relationship as it insidiously begins with that first inappropriate comment or action.  The core of it is between the ears of each and every one of us.  Self-esteem and those inner tapes from our childhood that tell us how to treat other people and what to expect and accept from other people.</p>
<p>How do you legislate that?  In a monogamous setting when the spouse is battered enough, the abuser is thrown in jail &#8211; maybe- there are restraining orders &#8211; maybe- there is court ordered treatment for addictions and psychiatry &#8211; maybe.  The resources are not there really to support any kind of recovery but it can take place to varying degrees.  The victims have transitional housing, financial help, counselling and more often long term adjustments and deep poverty.  The courts are involved, the police, the children&#8217;s ministry, non-profit support services, church groups, family members.  Legislation that is clear is difficult to enforce when intimate relationships and domestic abuse or child abuse occurs.  The end to abuse starts between the ears of the victim and the abuser.  They have to understand what is really occurring and why it is not acceptable.  When we truly believe that we deserve no better treatment or some higher power demands that we endure or participate in verbal, emotional or physical treatment of ourselves or another such that we/they are battered and miserable to ANY degree &#8211; not just when they arrive in the emergency ward &#8211; the input of friends, family, police or ministry personnel may or may not have much of an impact.  The message has to get past the ears, through all that grey matter and into the heart and belief system of the individuals.</p>
<p>The message that human life is meant for exploration, growth, freedom and happiness and that every human has a right to be happy, appreciated and loved. Every human being has a right to expect those who love them to treat them with respect and kindness.  You don&#8217;t have to do anything to deserve it.  You exist and thus deserve it same as those who would deny your happiness in preference to their own.</p>
<p>The province of British Columbia just introduced amendments to its Family Relations Act to address domestic abuse and look at these issues from the perspective of the well being of the children involved. In a nutshell, all decisions are to be based on what is best for the child and all other rights take a second place to that.  Terminology that is gender based or a bit antagonistic (parental support now instead of maintenance etc.) will be removed.</p>
<p>The law and those who enforce it begin to speak to the sense of self of the parents and child and the mission of parenthood which is the well being of the child.  Legislation valuing people is a good step towards those people valuing themselves.</p>
<p>Regardless of the decision in this case and the process of appeal or amending legislation that may take years, the work at Bountiful  &#8211; and anywhere domestic and child abuse is secreted in homes of every description across Canada &#8211; has only just begun.  Eradicating domestic and child abuse in my life time is a dream that I continue to dream.  What a wonderful country we&#8217;d live in where every child &#8211; male or female &#8211; grew up to experience a life where intimate partners&#8217; and family members&#8217; support and empowerment is the norm and stories of domestic abuse and child abuse are only in the history books.</p>
<p>( reposted from dearpollyamorie.blogspot.com with permission)</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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		<title>Decision November 23</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/decision-november-23</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/decision-november-23#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jbash</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Court Updates]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Court has announced that the judgement will be released at 10:00 (AM, Vancouver time), on November 23, 2011. The reasons for decision will posted here at that time: http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme_court/recent_Judgments.aspx There will be about an hour and half of supervised early access for the parties&#8217; counsel and the media, but any counsel or media people who participate will not be allowed to communicate with the &#8220;outside world&#8221; until release time.<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/decision-november-23">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Court has announced that the judgement will be released at 10:00 (AM, Vancouver time), on November 23, 2011. The reasons for decision will posted here at that time:<br />
<a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme_court/recent_Judgments.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/</a><wbr><a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme_court/recent_Judgments.aspx" target="_blank">supreme_court/recent_</a><wbr><a href="http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme_court/recent_Judgments.aspx" target="_blank">Judgments.aspx</a></wbr></wbr></p>
<p>There will be about an hour and half of supervised early access for the parties&#8217; counsel and the media, but any counsel or media people who participate will not be allowed to communicate with the &#8220;outside world&#8221; until release time. John Ince, our Chief Counsel, will be participating and will be available for interviews at the courthouse immediately upon release of the decision.</p>
<p>We will also be running a &#8220;hotline&#8221; for press questions starting at 10:00, and will be putting our reactions on this blog and elsewhere as we digest the judge&#8217;s reasons.</p>
<p>[Updated 2011-11-09 12:43 PST]</p>
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		<title>Advocating for the Right to Love &gt; 1</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/advocating-for-the-right-to-love-1</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/advocating-for-the-right-to-love-1#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 03:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Announcement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Join Friends of CPAA Advocacy Team &#8211; on Facebook and/or  google group: Friends of CPAA Advocacy Team Visit this group We are actively recruiting people who would like to participate in a coordinated advocacy team. There are tasks for all levels of &#8220;out&#8221;-ness and comfort: - Media watch (spot articles to which we ought to be responsive) - Write letters to the editor, and /or letters to politicians and bureaucrats.<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/advocating-for-the-right-to-love-1">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Join Friends of CPAA Advocacy Team &#8211; on Facebook and/or  google group:</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; padding: 5px;" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
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<td><img src="http://groups.google.com/intl/en/images/logos/groups_logo_sm.gif" alt="Google Groups" width="140" height="30" /></td>
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<td style="padding-left: 5px; font-size: 125%;"><strong>Friends of CPAA Advocacy Team</strong></td>
</tr>
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<td style="padding-left: 5px;"><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/friends-of-cpaa-advocacy-team?hl=en">Visit this group</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p>We are actively recruiting people who would like to participate in a coordinated advocacy team. There are tasks for all levels of &#8220;out&#8221;-ness and comfort:<br />
- Media watch (spot articles to which we ought to be responsive)<br />
- Write letters to the editor, and /or letters to politicians and bureaucrats.<br />
- Visit/phone MP&#8217;s and MLA&#8217;s.<br />
- Briefly talk to people in your every day activities.</p>
<p>Groups forming all across Canada and meeting once per month in a home near you. These meetings will provide you with training and information to participate at your most comfortable involvement. Skype contact between groups to keep our heart fires burning across the country. For more information email info@polyadvocacy.ca</p>
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		<title>Wear your hearts on your chest&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/wear-your-hearts-on-your-chest</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/wear-your-hearts-on-your-chest#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 17:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Announcement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CPAA has T-Shirts up for sale at http://www.zazzle.ca/polyadvocacy A portion of the purchase price goes to further our our work. Zazzle produces and ships the shirts. Suggestions for slogans and designs encouraged. Check back periodically for new items. Wear one to Pride celebrations both in the parades and on the sidelines. Wear one to poly group events. Keep a supply to give to newbies to your group as a welcome.<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/wear-your-hearts-on-your-chest">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CPAA has T-Shirts up for sale at <a href="http://www.zazzle.ca/polyadvocacy">http://www.zazzle.ca/polyadvocacy</a><br />
A portion of the purchase price goes to further our our work.  Zazzle produces and ships the shirts.<br />
Suggestions for slogans and designs encouraged. Check back periodically for new items.<br />
Wear one to Pride celebrations both in the parades and on the sidelines.  Wear one to poly group events.  Keep a supply to give to newbies to your group as a welcome.  Give them to your family to honour their support.  </p>
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		<title>Polyamory Panel Inspires Momentum</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/polyamory-panel-inspires-momentum</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/polyamory-panel-inspires-momentum#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 05:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(By guest blogger &#8211; Shanesmom) Polyamory is a growing social phenomenon that is becoming more visible and whose members seek to challenge discriminatory laws and policies that would criminalize their families. This was a main theme of the April 11 Panel Discussion hosted by the Vancouver Polyamory Group (Vanpoly) at The Junction House Pub in Vancouver that drew about 150 supporters. The panel coincided with the closing arguments of the<br /><span class="excerpt_more"><a href="http://polyadvocacy.ca/polyamory-panel-inspires-momentum">[continue reading...]</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(By guest blogger &#8211;  Shanesmom)</p>
<p>Polyamory is a growing social phenomenon that is becoming more visible and whose members seek to challenge discriminatory laws and policies that would criminalize their families. This was a main theme of the April 11 Panel Discussion hosted by the Vancouver Polyamory Group (Vanpoly) at The Junction House Pub in Vancouver that drew about 150 supporters. The panel coincided with the closing arguments of the British Columbia Supreme Court hearing on the constitutionality of Canada’s anti-polygamy law (Section 293 of the Criminal Code).  The case is hearing evidence on two issues: Is the anti-polygamy section of the Criminal Code consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and what are the necessary elements of the polygamy offence as it is set out in the Criminal Code? Even the supporters of the criminal law have given it 5 different interpretations and polyamorists are rightly concerned that some of their relationships—where more than two people live together in a marriage-like relationship—are capture by the criminal law.<br />
The Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association (CPAA) is an intervener in the case, and the group&#8217;s lawyer, John Ince, argued on April 13 that the Attorney Generals of British Columbia and Canada offered “no evidence of harm that justifies the criminalization of polyamorist families.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The panel, facilitated by Zoe Duff, included Janet W. Hardy who is a writer and sex educator, and founder of Greenery Press. She lives in Oregon and is the co-author of The Ethical Slut; Terisa Greenan who is based in Seattle and has penned numerous short stories and two adapted screenplays; John Ince, author of The Politics of Lust and legal counsel for the Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association; and Kiki Christie, the founder and facilitator of Victoria Poly 101, a polyamory discussion group in Victoria. </p>
<p>Zoe asked the panel a number of thoughtful questions that drew from the panelists’ expertise on polyamory. Janet Hardy replied to a question about how the popularity of polyamory has increased in the past decade by discussing the importance of the Internet to building community. She noted that queer communities have practiced loving multiple relationships for many years, but they didn’t call it polyamory. The Internet has facilitated more people to embrace a polyamorist identity.  </p>
<p>In answering a question on discrimination, Terisa Greenan discussed how one of the actors who plays a character on her polyamory-themed hit comic web series &#8220;Family&#8221; was let go after shooting a commercial for an Australian olive oil company. Producers said that the owners had received links to “Family” and because of the nature of the show, no longer wanted the actor to represent them. Terisa said that the actor is not a polyamorist but was tainted by association. These experiences of discrimination are common for those willing to come out as polyamorist or for those just associated with the movement.  </p>
<p>John Ince drew a parallel between polyamory and the lesbian and gay movement. He pointed out that it wasn’t until 1969 that gay sex was decriminalized in Canada, and that the progress made by lesbians and gay men would have been unfathomable in the 1960s and 1970s. Drawing a parallel, Ince told the audience that the current B.C. Supreme Court reference case will mark a turning point for the polyamorous community. The discrimination that polyamorists experience is now gaining more public attention as part of a broader conversation about whether their families should be criminalized.  </p>
<p>Kiki Christie discussed how polyamorous communities have amazing consistency across the border. Part of this is due to the Internet and part is due to the amazing tolerance and welcoming environment that polyamorous communities support. Networking across the border has strengthened the movement and made it more resilient. </p>
<p>The panel discussion was following by a Q&#038;A discussion with the audience, asking a range of questions from generational differences in the practice of polyamory to what can people do to help. All-in-all, this was an extremely successful event that highlighted the increasing cohesiveness and momentum of the growing polyamory movement.</p>
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		<title>Closing Arguments begin March 28th</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/closing-arguments-begin-march-28th</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/closing-arguments-begin-march-28th#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Court Updates]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The  CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) has obtained the right (a first  in BC) to video tape court proceedings  of the closing arguments and is webcasting live only (video and  sound) here:  Starts March 28, at 10 am Pacific Standard Time      <a title="polygamy trial live webcast" href="http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1631554292" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1631554292" target="_blank">Here</a>
Wait for the commercial and the video is there when court is in session.
Schedule of presentation of closing arguments are <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aEN6cjLFnVF9dff1Q9CNS__-lsVkeCodp6j39Wtoo44/edit?hl=en&#38;authkey=CMSewq0D#" target="_blank">here</a>:]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Written closing arguments have been filed.<br />
Oral closing arguments are expected to be heard between March 28 and April 8 (10 days).<br />
The  CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) has obtained the right (a first  in BC) to video tape court proceedings  of the closing arguments and is webcasting live only (video and  sound) here:  Starts March 28, at 10 am Pacific Standard Time      <a title="polygamy trial live webcast" href="http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1631554292" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1631554292" target="_blank">Here</a><br />
Wait for the commercial and the video is there when court is in session.</p>
<p>Schedule of presentation of closing arguments are <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aEN6cjLFnVF9dff1Q9CNS__-lsVkeCodp6j39Wtoo44/edit?hl=en&amp;authkey=CMSewq0D#" target="_blank">here</a>:</p>
<p>The text of closing arguments, as well as all other documents are <a href="https://docs.google.com/?tab=mo&amp;authuser=0#folders/folder.0.0B-URIT52yhx4MDVkMDU5MDctZDM0Zi00ODQ4LWJkNWEtMWVjNmRjMGE2ZjQ0" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>
<p>Our closing argument was designed to piggy back on the closing  argument of the Amicus, who did a great job focusing on the law  generally. He also has a significant section in his brief on  international law, including US. The CPAA closing is focused on the  facts surrounding polyamory.  John Ince intends to read the affidavits  of our poly families into the record as part of the closing, as we did  not present any oral evidence.</p>
<p>You will see from the closing arguments of the Attorneys General of  Canada/BC, that they try to minimize the meaning of the literal words of  the criminal law, the extent of polyamory, and the impact of the  criminal law section on polyamorists so as to convince the court that  the Canadian law should be upheld.</p>
<ul>
<li>Be aware of what is a stake in this law that has never been  effectively enforced but is touted as the only answer to a huge  community problem in one small Canadian locality.  The actual documents are long and the archive site is hard to negotiate and we know that too.  Check out an ongoing summary of transcripted testimony at www.dearpollyamorie.blogspot.com (which has to have an adult content disclaimer only because it talks about multi-partner relationships)</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>Be willing to speak out to your neighbours, friends, MP&#8217;s MLA&#8217;s  and the media in all possible formats.   Write that letter.  Make that  online comment.  Be informed and share that knowledge.  We&#8217;ll be posting more on this website to help you with that.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>Make your voice heard for those across Canada who have a right  to live in a loving happy home in peace and without discrimination.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>Speak out for the enforcement of laws already on the books to  deal with trafficking of children, child brides, child abuse, spousal  abuse, welfare fraud and all the harms associated with men/women who are  very good at oppressing other family members for whatever stated  purpose or ultimate intent &#8211; whether those men/women live in monogamous  or multi-partnered households.</li>
</ul>
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		<title>30 to 1 or 500 to 1, we dwarf Bountiful. Why is it about them?</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/30-to-1-or-500-to-1-we-dwarf-bountiful-why-is-it-about-them</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/30-to-1-or-500-to-1-we-dwarf-bountiful-why-is-it-about-them#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jbash</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Court Updates]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Among those affected by the "polygamy law", polyamorists are the ones with the numbers.

So who chose Bountiful to be the public face?

Most polyamorists don't think of ourselves as "polygamous", but the law does. The "polygamy law" says modern, secular, egalitarian conjugal polyamorists should go to prison.

For every polygynous family in Bountiful, Canada has dozens, maybe hundreds, of polyamorous families. At a minimum, there are about as many of us as there are Muslim polygynists... who also vastly outnumber Bountiful. We may outnumber even Muslims... by as much as 15 to 1. Invisibility hurts us... and it's not deserved.

Click the headline for details.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;d like to talk about something that hurts us.</p>
<p>&#8220;Polygamy&#8221; has one main face for the Canadian public: the fundamentalist offshoots of Mormonism in Bountiful, BC.</p>
<p>People seem to think Bountiful outnumbers egalitarian polyamorists. Sometime they seem to think there are no multiple partners outside Bountiful at all.</p>
<h3>Modern polyamorists hugely outnumber Bountiful</h3>
<p>Bountiful is tiny. There are probably about 33 polygynous families there, containing about 120 spouses&#8230; and those seem to represent most of the Mormonism-derived polygyny in Canada. There may be 10 or 15 independent families in &#8220;Mormon&#8221; polygyny outside Bountiful</p>
<p>We have <em>specifically identified</em> 112 egalitarian, secular conjugal polyamorous families in Canada, including over 350 spouses. That was with a quick survey, mostly promoted on a few Internet mailing lists. Even that number is over three times the size of Bountiful.</p>
<p>We think the real number is much higher, perhaps somewhere between 1100 and almost 17000 conjugal families (and, of course, many more non-conjugal polyamorists).</p>
<p>For every single Bountiful family that might be doing something bad, the Government(s) would make criminals of at least 33 polyamorous families.  That&#8217;s the <em>low</em> estimate. The <em>high</em> estimate is more like 510. None of those polyamorous families are accused of any real wrong.</p>
<p>Why do people think that&#8217;s OK? We don&#8217;t think they do. We think they just don&#8217;t know the numbers.</p>
<p>[Numbers updated 2011-Nov-21; we now have a better (and lower) estimate for Muslims. See below for more on the confidence of all these numbers.]</p>
<h3>What about Muslims?</h3>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to count people, we have to admit most patriarchal polygynists in Canada have no Mormon connections. Most are almost certainly Muslims.  Like polyamorists, Muslim polygynists vastly outnumber Bountiful. They don&#8217;t match polyamorous numbers, but they&#8217;re significant.</p>
<p>Many activists, on all sides, prefer to say that &#8220;polygamy&#8221; doesn&#8217;t include conjugal polyamory, just patriarchal polygyny.  That&#8217;s not the law&#8217;s definition, nor the dictionary&#8217;s&#8230; and probably not the public&#8217;s, either. But suppose &#8220;polygamy&#8221; <em>does</em> exclude the thousands of modern polyamorists. Then why aren&#8217;t Muslims the &#8220;face of polygamy&#8221;?</p>
<p>Because Muslims aren&#8217;t dramatic enough. Their religion may be unpopular. Their polygynists may stand accused of abuses. But everybody knows polygynists are a small minority of Muslims, and they don&#8217;t stand out. They&#8217;re not all in one place. They&#8217;re not as photogenic as Bountiful. Nor are they generally thought as extreme. Not so many of their ex-wives are writing books. And, hey, they&#8217;re just not exotic. In the big cities, we see headscarves every day, but prairie dresses?</p>
<p>Anti-polygamy activists have done a great job of choosing their message&#8230; and a great job of convincing the public that Bountiful is the model of &#8220;polygamy&#8221;&#8230; whatever they mean by that word.</p>
<p>The problem is that it just isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<h3>WARNING. SPECULATION.</h3>
<p>[Update 2010-Dec-14, further revised 2011-Nov-21]</p>
<p>Perhaps I should have been more careful with the language in this post, because I was told that people were treating these numbers as more than they&#8217;re meant to be&#8230; and then getting annoyed about the methodology.</p>
<p>The point is that the number of egalitarian, conjugal polyamorous families in Canada is:</p>
<ol>
<li>Vastly greater than the number of fundamentalist Mormon polygynous families. That&#8217;s not based on estimates or guesses; again, our survey <em>identified</em> three times the number that Bountiful has.</li>
<li>Very probably considerably more than the total of patriarchal polygynous families in Canada.</li>
</ol>
<p>For Canada, with smaller polygynous groups like fundamentalist Mormons, you can talk about &#8220;dozens of families&#8221;. With Muslims, &#8220;hundreds&#8221; is reasonable. With egalitarian polyamorists, you can say &#8220;thousands&#8221;. &#8220;Many hundreds&#8221; if you want to be very conservative.</p>
<p>The estimates are designed to explore the plausibility of those propositions. They have limited usefulness outside that context. And many have more significant digits than the data support.</p>
<p>We especially got a lot of questions about the high estimate of 17,000 polyamorous families (or 550,000 individual polyamorists). That&#8217;s meant to be an upper bound on an order of magnitude. It&#8217;s almost certainly too high. As many pointed out, it&#8217;s based on multiplying and dividing a whole chain of uncertain numbers, and chances for sampling errors abound. Oddly enough, few people mentioned the completely guessed numbers in that chain; the questions were about more subtle sampling and error multiplication issues.</p>
<p>The <em>low</em> estimate of 1120 polyamorous families got less attention, even though it&#8217;s also based on two conjectural factors, and it&#8217;s very probably too low.</p>
<p>The numbers of patriarchal polygynists are also getting few questions, even though they&#8217;re based on loose guesses from unknown parties. Those numbers are at least as uncertain as the egalitarian polyamorist numbers, and even if we had an exact count of polyamorists, their uncertainty would limit what we could say about relative magnitudes.</p>
<h3>The estimates</h3>
<p>&#8220;Polygamous&#8221; groups are hard to count, being outlaws and all, but we can get some vague idea. Not good enough to order pizza for everybody, but perhaps good enough to show who&#8217;s most numerous.</p>
<p>We welcome any improvements or corrections to any of these numbers, but, please, only if you actually have better data or methods than we have.</p>
<h4>Bountiful</h4>
<p>Bountiful is easy to count, because it&#8217;s so small, so concentrated, and under such a microscope.</p>
<p>According to their court filings (as of early 2011), the FLDS side of Bountiful has a total population of 550. Of those, 55 are in polygamous marriages, in a total of 15 families.</p>
<p>The other side of Bountiful, the &#8220;Blackmore faction&#8221;, hasn&#8217;t given any numbers, so we&#8217;ll have to estimate.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve seen the population of Bountiful as a whole set at 1200. That would mean 550 on the FLDS side and 650 on the Blackmore side.</p>
<p>Until a few years ago, the two were one united group, and they didn&#8217;t split over polygamy. It seems safe to assume they&#8217;re reasonably similar in that way. If the rate of polygyny in the Blackmore side is the same as in the FLDS side, then among the 1200 total people in Bountiful, we can confidently estimate close to 120 people in close to 33 families.</p>
<h4>Polyamory</h4>
<p>Modern, egalitarian polyamory is a much more difficult place to get a credible estimate, and conjugal polyamory is harder still. Polyamorists are scattered and diverse, mixed in with the larger community, and many have other labels they may find as important as polyamory.</p>
<p>We want to be the first to admit that our numbers are extremely rough. After all, our high and low estimates differ by a factor of 15 or more.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, we think we can say something interesting.</p>
<h5>First approach</h5>
<p>The CPAA survey identified 112 conjugal families and 365 spouses. Those aren&#8217;t  necessarily lifelong &#8220;marriages&#8221;, but they&#8217;re close enough to be banned by Section 293 if you read it in the obvious way. They all said they believed women had the same rights as men to multiple partners.</p>
<p>We know that such a survey is lucky to get 20 percent response. It seems fair to set an absolute lower bound of 560 conjugal families who would <em>view</em> themselves as polyamorous.</p>
<p>The number of people who <em>practice</em> secular polyamorous relationships, or follow the values associated with them, is bound to be larger than the number of people who <em>consider</em> themselves polyamorous; many people have never even heard the word &#8220;polyamory&#8221;. Some have estimated that there might be ten times as many &#8220;non-identified&#8221; polyamorists as &#8220;identified&#8221; ones&#8230; but that seems high. Let&#8217;s take a more conservative factor of two.</p>
<p>That gives us 1120 families&#8230; but that number is based on two big guesses, albeit very conservative ones.</p>
<h5>Second approach</h5>
<p>We can try to estimate the number of polyamorous people, and then how many of those people are in conjugal relationships.</p>
<p>The following method of counting polyamorous people is from our friend Alan at <a href="http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2009/04/are-bisexuals-glue-that-holds-poly.html">Poly in the Media</a>, and the references are there.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There are quite a few studies in the US indicating that about 40% of bisexuals are polyamorous in some sense, when they are asked about their relationships or preferred relationship style. There are also indicators that about 40% of self-identified polys call themselves bi. This would mean the total number of polys is about the same as the total number of bisexuals &#8212; who are supposedly 2.3% of the US population age 18-44 (though a larger percent answered &#8220;other&#8221; rather than either heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual).&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The 2.3 percent bisexuals figure is from a large US government survey. By the way, that the survey simply didn&#8217;t measure people over the age of 44, which is why Alan says &#8220;18-44&#8243;.</p>
<p>Other estimates around the Web seem to be pretty similar. The 2006 census counted about 24 million [original artical erroneously said 2.4 million] Canadians over the age of 19. If we assume Americans and Canadians are somewhat similar and 2.3 percent polyamorous, that means about 550,000 polyamorous adult Canadians. Eek.</p>
<p>In 2001, Loving More magazine (a US magazine dedicated to polyamory) surveyed 1010 of its readers. 624 of them said they were in some kind of polyamorous relationship. The released results don&#8217;t directly show how many of those relationships were conjugal, although it appears the raw data would let you determine that fairly well. Respondents listed their partners, and the released results show the number of people saying that each numbered partner lived with them. Those numbers suggest that about 15 percent of the respondents had multiple live-in conjugal partners.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d expect Loving More readers to be more committed to the idea of polyamory than the average person who casually adopts the label &#8220;polyamorous&#8221;. So let&#8217;s arbitrarily reduce that 15 percent, and say that 10 percent of the people who self-identify as polyamorous are in multi-partner conjugal relationships.</p>
<p>Applying that to the number of polyamorous people we got in the first part, we get 55,000 people in polyamorous conjugal relationships. Our general experience says that most such relationships are triads or &#8220;vees&#8221;; they involve 3 people. The CPAA survey numbers give about 3.26 people per relationship, which agrees with this intuition. So we divide 55,000 by 3.25 to get about 16,850 polyamorous conjugal relationships in Canada.</p>
<p>Whoa.</p>
<h4>Muslims</h4>
<p>We&#8217;re not experts on Islam in Canada, and we have no &#8220;feel&#8221; for it, so we&#8217;ll rely on others.</p>
<p>Aly Hindi, a pro-polygamy imam in Toronto, <a href="http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110221/bc_polygamists_110221/20110221">has said</a> that he believes that there are &#8220;more than 200&#8243; polygynous Muslim families in the greater Toronto area (older versions of this post used a less precise &#8220;several hundred&#8221; from the same source). Estimates are thin enough on the ground that even studies commissioned by the Government have quoted that Hindi&#8217;s numbers.</p>
<p>The greater Toronto area apparently has about 255,000 Muslims, and<br />
Canada as a whole has about 600,000. If the rate is similar among all<br />
Canadian Muslims, and if &#8220;more than 200&#8243; means 250, we can expect<br />
roughly 600 (588) families in Canada.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t approach our <em>lower</em> estimate of 1120 conjugal polyamorous families in Canada.</p>
<h4>Others</h4>
<h5>Independent Mormons</h5>
<p><a href="http://principlevoices.org/diversity-of-fundamentalist-mormons">Principle Voices</a> estimates that there are 15000 &#8220;independent&#8221; Mormon-derived polygynists in the United States. These aren&#8217;t necessarily people who practice polygyny, but at least they&#8217;re people who believe in it.</p>
<p>These people are NOT part of the &#8220;regular&#8221; LDS church, which would excommunicate any it caught actually practicing polygyny. Perhaps, though, we can guess that they&#8217;re about the same percentage of &#8220;Mormonism&#8221; in Canada as in the US. According to <a href="http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_lds.html">adherents.com</a>, there are about 4.9 million &#8220;regular&#8221; LDS members in the US, and 151,000 in Canada.</p>
<p>Perhaps we can also guess that they actually practice polygyny at about the same rate as the Bountiful group.</p>
<p>If those guesses are right, there are about 13 families in Canada, containing about 46 people. Even if we&#8217;re off by a factor of 10, they&#8217;re still only about as numerous as Bountiful, and vastly less so than egalitarian polyamorists or Muslims.</p>
<h5>&#8220;Asian&#8221; (Hmong)</h5>
<p>Nancy Mereska over at <a href="http://stoppolygamyincanada.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/response-to-andrew-coynes-editorial-in-macleans/#comments">Stop Polygamy In Canada</a> assures us that &#8220;Asian&#8221; polygynists are common in Minnesota. Some Google searching indicates that the people in question are mostly Hmong.</p>
<p>There are apparently about 42,000 Hmong people living in Minnesota. Somebody whose credibility we don&#8217;t know <a href="http://asianweek.com/2002_11_22/news_polygamy.html">estimates</a> that there are 270 to 450 polygamous families among them.</p>
<p>The Hmong population of Canada is apparently about 600 people. We can expect maybe 5 polygynous families. Give or take.</p>
<h5>&#8220;African&#8221;</h5>
<p>Stop Polygamy also warns us of &#8220;African&#8221; polygynists, but doesn&#8217;t say who they are. We assume they&#8217;re mostly animists or practitioners of other traditional religions, since otherwise Stop would presumably count them as Muslims.</p>
<p>How ever many of these people there may be, they don&#8217;t seem to have generated much of a demographic trail on the Web. If anybody has any information about them, we&#8217;d like to hear it.</p>
<p>In the meantime, pending some actual information, we&#8217;re guessing maybe 50 families, similar to other groups that don&#8217;t seem to be big enough to generate much press or study. We freely admit that&#8217;s a wild guess.</p>
<h5>&#8220;Christian&#8221;</h5>
<p>There&#8217;s apparently a Christian Polygamy movement. Stop again tells us that they&#8217;re in some New England states. They seem to have some Web sites, mostly pretty low-traffic. We don&#8217;t know how to count them.</p>
<p>We can say that Google returns 4,490 hits for &#8220;Christian polygamy&#8221;, (and 3,530 for &#8220;Jewish polygamy&#8221;, for whatever that&#8217;s worth). That&#8217;s versus 377,000 for &#8220;polyamory&#8221;. Make of that what you will, but for now we&#8217;re content to assume these people do not outnumber either polyamorists or Muslim polygynists.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>What is the difference between polyamory and polygamy?</title>
		<link>http://polyadvocacy.ca/what-is-the-difference-between-polyamory-and-polygamy</link>
		<comments>http://polyadvocacy.ca/what-is-the-difference-between-polyamory-and-polygamy#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Carole</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polyadvocacy.ca/?p=568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This essay by the Unitarian Universalists for Polyamory Awareness, with several chapters in the United States,  has an excellent discussion of the nature of the separate polyamorist and polygamy communities. http://uupa.org/Literature/PolygamyComparison.htm]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This essay by the Unitarian Universalists for Polyamory Awareness, with several chapters in the United States,  has an excellent discussion of the nature of the separate polyamorist and polygamy communities.</p>
<p><a href="http://uupa.org/Literature/PolygamyComparison.htm">http://uupa.org/Literature/PolygamyComparison.htm</a></p>
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		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
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